New NSW Rugby CEO Andrew Hore has a big job ahead of him. The former Ospreys and NZ Rugby administrator will oversee a restructure of the NSW Rugby and Waratahs organisations and attempt to regain lost ground in the world’s most competitive winter sports market. Shortly after his appointment, Rugby News caught up with Hore to discuss the job ahead.

Rugby News: Can you explain the restructure currently occurring at NSW Rugby?

Andrew Hore: The restructure is still in its infancy but basically the powers at be decided about six years ago that they would separate the Waratahs from NSW Rugby. It’s now been agreed that there will be two separate boards catering for the individual needs of both the professional game and the community game, however there will be a crossover of four individuals that will work on both boards. In the short term, I’ll be working on a strategic plan for both the elite and community game to help shape how we want this company to operate. Then we’ll potentially look at a more formal restructure after that review is finished. At the moment, we are in a bit of a half way house because roles aren’t clearly defined and there is a little bit of confusion around who is doing what, but we are hopeful that in the next few weeks we’ll get some clarity.

RN: Why is the restructure so important?

AH: The thing to remember is that rugby would be nowhere without its community but the community side of the game needs the income generated by the professional end of the game. We are not a rugby league club, we are not an AFL club, we are a state and I think we need to start acting like one and looking after those below us in the rugby chain to ensure that we thrive and prosper as a sport. At the moment, we have a decline in numbers, NSW still isn’t a rugby state and I think we’ve lost a bit of identity and you don’t get identity without your community. Likewise, the community game needs the Waratahs to be the beacon, the aspirational pathway for kids, coaches and administrators so the two do go hand in hand. It’s one of the unique qualities of rugby and I think that gives us a significant advantage over our rival codes.

RN: How would you describe the current state of rugby in NSW?

AH: Individual people are extremely passionate but a lot of the systems and structures are quite antiquated and I think we have some real issues that we need to resolve if we are going to be the entity that we need to be. That is going to take some time, but firstly we need to identity what is important. What do we actually stand for? Everyone talks about New Zealand and how well they have done, but they actually stand for something. They have an identity and we don’t have that. I think our number one priority is to identify the one or two key tasks that we are here for and then match our operational structures and board structures to meet that.

RN: How important are grassroots rugby clubs?

Vitally important and I think the one thing that I have observed is that I’m concerned that maybe we haven’t respected them to the level we should. That said, they’ve got to respect themselves as well. At the end of the day, the first place a young person will go to is his club and as a rugby man myself, I love my club, I love the first club I ever played for and I always will. I remember going to see Otago play with all the fathers on one bus drinking beer and all the kids on the other eating sweets. To me, junior clubs are vitally important and I would seriously question whether we are giving them the attention that we need to.

AH: Should grassroots rugby clubs be receiving more support and funding from the ARU and NSW Rugby?

First of all, you’ve got to have funds to distribute them and resources and support can come in a multitude of ways. The fact of the matter is that rugby isn’t a wealthy sport in Australia. It’s been run into the ground through often not being clear about what we want to do. If we have to change our funding structure based on the identity that we deem we need to have, then we’ll need to look at that closely and it might well be that money is needed but I also think we need some quick wins and we need to find ways to better resource clubs and help clubs help themselves. I look at the AGL deal (AGL will donate $150 to your local rugby club if you switch plans) there’s $150 to be earned straight away and it goes straight into the club coffers and the uptake on that has been extremely poor. The key issue there is why haven’t clubs helped themselves. We have to put our hand up before we put our hand out.

RN: The majority of the ARU’s development funding is targeted at schools programs. Should clubs be given the ability to be able to share some of this responsibility?

AH: First of all, it’s not my job to argue with the ARU on how they distribute their funds. My issue, right now, is we need to be far more aligned with the ARU and far more aligned with the clubs. There has been a massive blow-up between the clubs and the ARU. As I said, all clubs need to take responsibility for their own funding as well – look at the AGL deal. I think as a sport, we need to be talking a lot more to local government and federal government and we’ve been absolutely terrible at that, largely because I think as a sport, we’ve been arrogant based on our history. We need to impress upon the decision makers, the virtues of rugby union, of which I think there are many.

RN: We all know how important Western Sydney is in terms of the Australian sporting landscape but Penrith, Parramatta and West Harbour’s Shute Shield sides finished in the bottom four this year and not a single senior team (grade and colts) from any of those clubs made the playoffs. Should NSW Rugby have a physical presence in those clubs to help promote rugby in the west?

AH: That’s all up for discussion at the moment, we are going through a process with the clubs on that. I’ve seen great strides at Parramatta. Only this morning, I met with their president and we are more than happy to support them and their growth. But I think it’s important that we don’t create a welfare state either and we don’t want to penalise those clubs who are doing well. We need to reward the clubs helping themselves and get better at that. Up for discussion at the moment is what resources we put into clubs because you only get one shot at that, it needs to be done properly. I’m not a great believer in having a great mother ship that controls everything, I feel though that we need to have strategic templates for each region of Sydney that individuals on the ground should be filling out and developing a strategic plan for the growth and development for rugby in their area. At the moment we don’t have that. If those plans deem that a bigger presence is needed, then we will definitely consider it. At the moment everything is being driven from the top down, rather than a balance from the bottom up.

I don’t think there is a quick fix to Australian rugby’s problems. We’re buggered, there’s no point going away from that. We need to get on our bike and identify what we need to do. It’s not about the Shute Shield, it’s not about Super Rugby, it’s actually about the eight-year-old boy or girl who has just put on a pair of footy boots for the first time. It’s about what we are doing to make rugby a better game for them as a player, a coach, a fan or an administrator in the years ahead. I’m getting sick of hearing what each individual competition needs, rather than what we need collectively as a sport.

RN: You’ve stated in the past they you want the Waratahs to be just as successful as the Crusaders as a franchise. How can you make that happen?

AH: We need to drop the selfishness, we need to start working for the collective good of the sport. We need to respect the game for what it is, we need to nurture talent in our own area, we need to give the commercial sector something strong to believe in and show them a sense of purpose. We can’t be inconsistent and all over the place, we’ve got to have a strong unified message that resonates into the commercial sector. If we can do that, we may go someway to creating something special.

RN: What are your top three priorities?

AH: The first priority is to get a strategic plan in place. Then we need to create a business that reflects the changes in the board structure. We need NSW Rugby and Waratahs as one. The third would be to get around and really understand this place. I’ve met with everyone club president, I’ve met with every NRC club, I’m starting to meet with schools, so I feel I’m starting to get a better idea, but there is still a long way to go.

RN: What have you learnt from your experiences with New Zealand Rugby and Ospreys that will help you in this role?

AH: I think I probably learnt more from the Welsh role. It was great to be involved with the Crusaders when they weren’t so successful. That taught me a lot about making hard decisions because a fish rots from its head so you need to get the administration right first and they did that. I also learnt a lot from my Sydenham (NZ) rugby clubs days. They were last three years in a row, then restructured their governance and ended up winning four years straight, so both Canterbury and Sydenham and I look at where Welsh rugby is going at the moment, those lessons probably taught me the most about how important strong and vigorous leadership is.

RN: Thanks for your time Andrew.

AH: No worries.